Uncategorized admin on 30 Jun 2010 03:32 pm
Pornoholics Anonymous
So I was hanging out with some friends a few nights ago and they turned on a True Life episode entitled “I’m Addicted to Porn.” It followed a porn star who was frustrated with her career and two porn “addicts” who’s lives were being ruined because they just constantly watched porn instead of dating or going to job interviews. Now I know from people who’ve actually been on the show that most of it is a dramatization and sometimes heavily scripted but I also know from family members that a person can ruin relationships with porn. So I’m starting a discussion below. Do you think you’re addicted to porn? To you think people blame porn just because they have no self control? Leave some comments, I’ll post my take on it below.
Erick Janssen, PhD, a researcher at the Kinsey Institute, criticizes the use of the term addiction when talking about porn because he says it merely describes certain people’s behavior as being addiction-like, but treating them as addicts may not help them. Many people may diagnose themselves as porn addicts after reading popular books on the subject, he says. But mental health professionals have no standard criteria to diagnose porn addiction. (http://miniurl.org/0uR)
I honestly get really sick of people who feel like they’re addicted to things and need God or whatever to get themselves out of it. Yes, many cases can be severe and may be too much for one person to handle but I wouldn’t extend that out of things like drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. which have heavy addictive properties. I have known people who’ve become physically addicted to prescription painkillers to the point where if they stopped cold turkey they could physically die. So I’m definitely saying that addictions don’t exist. What I AM saying though is that when a person blames the drug or the porn and doesn’t take an ounce of personal responsibility then I have no sympathy for them. You are the person choosing to drink, watch porn, etc. You may have been born with a more addictive personality but that doesn’t mean you don’t have control over your own actions.
I spoke to my aunt recently. She had divorced her husband when I was young and I found out recently that the split was on a certain level, due to his addiction to porn. She asked me when I defended my stance that porn isn’t a gateway to hell like she and my mom think if I thought it was OK that one partner would be taking care of the kids and making dinner while the other wouldn’t come help because he was downstairs watching porn. Of course that’s not OK, but the problem there isn’t the porn, its the man. You can’t blame porn for your failed relationship. Porn didn’t miss making dinner or taking care of your kids, your husband did. I’m sure my aunt absolutely hates my career choice because of her experience. I certainly wouldn’t do what I do if all it did was ruin relationships and people’s lives. I think it’s all just a matter of weakness. You can get over your addiction if you have the drive. It’s only the weak that end up blaming someone or something else for their lack of ability to control their actions.
No person needs porn to survive. If your partner or family or even your daily life is being hurt by you spending too much time jackin’ it then just stop. If you think you need rehab they actually have those for sexual addiction but seriously don’t blame the porn or the people who make it. I think porn can be a great outlet and even something you and your partner can share but if it becomes a problem you only have yourself to blame. Porn is not a drug, don’t treat it like one. That’s all I got, let me know what you think.
on 30 Jun 2010 at 3:44 pm # Christian
Addictions are all in your head if you really want to quit u can. I used to be a chain smoker and it was easy to quit. Its all about self control. Don’t let and object control you
Control yourself.
on 30 Jun 2010 at 5:10 pm # Drew
I like porn but it doesn’t rule my life, I don’t to much time watching or looking for it. it seems when relationships or when things don’t to there way they want to blame it on what have an interest on. and I see what you meant it also seems just like if they turn the handle a bit to much they have ocd etc. and I think some like it cause they get attention.
Your aunts divorced sounds like the porn “addiction” was used it to get away and yet probably a lot of it had to be with no communication.
on 30 Jun 2010 at 5:25 pm # Chucky Baer
The problem with the sex addict or any addict is it is a source of pain relief and escape from emotions. That is why most are using whatever drug of choice to escape.
In the case of porn- the porn itself is like the crack pipe to the crack ho. It is only a tool to use while sex addict (assuming he is a compulsive masturbater)escapes reality. So yes it really isn’t the fault of the porn itself or whoever produces it.
I don’t believe there is an actual addiction to porn…like I said it is just a tool for another addiction…namely a sex addiction in this case just like the glass helps the alcoholic drink the booze, the pipe or the Coke can that helps the crack user smoke that shit, etc.
Long before the world had porn they had Sears Catalogs to jerk off to LOL. Sex addiction did not all of a sudden pop into existence because professional adult films were being produced.
Masturbation has been around since Eve got pissed off at Adam (he had to have something to do in that garden) so I am sure compulsive masturbation has been too..so yes, to blame the porn itself is ridiculous. It’s like blaming the people that make Martini glasses for the plight of the alcoholic.
And with all due respect to Christan up there that is a very arrogant thing to say…it is not all in someone’s head. Recent studies have shown that addictive behavior can in fact be passed on from generation to generation in families and most addictions make the person physically dependent not just psychologically.
While smoking is addictive there are other chemicals that wreak havoc on people. Many of these are used, at firstwith peers, and the person thinks they can do it in moderation.
But illegal drugs like crystal meth, crack and heroin are designed through there chemical makeup to be physically addicting so it has nothing to do with will power or anything psychological…bless you for quitting smoking but everyone’s experience and life isn’t as picture perfect as you claim your experience was.
Try detoxing and withdrawing from heroin or pain killers and see how much it was in your head and how much your body became physically addicted to it.
In the 1980’s I was shot in a mugging and I had to take strong pain killers so I could actually start to walk again. After months when I tried stopping them I would get physically sick beyond belief while going through withdrawals.
I tried stopping on my own but my body would have none of that and eventually went to a medical detox to solve the problem- now was that situation all in my head?
on 30 Jun 2010 at 7:19 pm # Linda
Well, I’m older than most of you, but I can tell you that in my day, we didn’t have all this PC, “touchy-feely” crap you guys have today.
Today, EVERYBODY has some kind of “disease” or “disorder” that they’re not responsible for. And, don’t you know, blaming THEM is wrong, it’s not THEIR fault, they can’t help it, because when they were 9 years old they didn’t get the Christmas present they hoped for, or their Mom was a mean bitch who MADE THEM KEEP THEIR ROOM CLEAN…
So today, the kid grows into a man who compulsively gambles, and consistently blows the rent money at OTB, and he has a “gambling addiction”. Which, amazingly, is TREATABLE with new and expensive medications and years of “therapy”, conveniently billed to your insurance company! Isn’t the Brave New World wonderful?
In my day, we’d call the guy an asshole…as in “She divorced THE ASSHOLE because he kept blowing the rent money at OTB”…
*SIGH* You know, older as I am, I’ll most likely check out before you guys do, but let me tell you, if this is the way the world is heading, you’re welcome to it, and God help you…
What a world!
on 30 Jun 2010 at 7:22 pm # admin
Lol, that was pretty awesome Linda
on 30 Jun 2010 at 11:03 pm # Michael
Wait Wait Wait. Someone like Chucky can get physically addicted, then get detoxed and never go back. But the whole point of addicts is that they go back and back and back even though they know it’s killing them. Look, I’m probably as old as Linda (I’m older than Chucky anyway), but I knew too many alcoholics including my now dead ex to think there isn’t something to it. Yeah he was a manipulative piece of shit, but he gave himself a death penalty for it.
One alky I knew told me once that he drank because he was bored with himself. I don’t know why I remembered this, but recently it kinda came to me. An addict is just someone who has to be in a constant thrill. Normal is just painful. Since life isn’t always a thrill, it’s drink, drug or gambling or whatever.
Look, here’s the thing with porn. On the one hand (pun alert), getting off sexually is also a thrill. That’s why it has the same name as using a drug (duh!) On the other, a sex high is kind of hard to sustain particularly when you get past 35. So I’m not sure how a porn addiction would really work. But if people do have a problem with it, I think you shouldn’t trivialize that especially if it isn’t a problem for you.
But I want to say this. I personally appreciate the work people like Andy do. It helps me because I get off on the visual aspect of youth (just my taste) and the kinds of dances between the actors. Porn lets me enjoy this without betraying my husband and getting into relationships that are complicated and problematic if not creepy in a better way than using my own invented fantasies. And with what you do in this blog Andy lets peek a little inside the fantasy and see some of the real people. So that’s a double appreciation.
on 01 Jul 2010 at 7:44 am # J
I could see how porn could be addictive if it hinders someone’s ability to use their imagination, so they need it every time they fap, and they need to fap A LOT on account of having a very high sex drive and they’re struggling to get someone to have sex with them.
It would apply more to straight guys I think, because girls would probably be less willing to do a craigslist hookup or something as society would judge them more harshly.
on 01 Jul 2010 at 10:00 am # Lotta Roti
I agree with you Andy. Yeah, addictions are “just in your head” but stuff that is in people’s head is pretty strong stuff.
The key point is the difference between physically addictive substances and things that do not have those, but about which people can have certain behavior patterns. Treating the two same way is a mistake.
(Nice rant Linda :))
on 01 Jul 2010 at 2:53 pm # Lotta Roti
I don’t believe at all that porn could *hinder* someone’s imagination. I mean all writers read a lot and this feeds their imagination. Same way I should think viewing play-acted sexual fantasies would only add to a more rich and multifaceted inner fantasy life.
on 01 Jul 2010 at 5:56 pm # linda
Well, let me be clear…I don’t discount addiction. There are chemicals that make you dependent in a real, physical way, and as Andy pointed out, abrupt withdrawal from them (such as barbiturates) can kill you.
I am talking about the behavioral issues that are being called addictions these days. Behavioral issues that in my day(back in the Paleolithic era)were TREATED as behavioral issues. You had to change your behavior, period. But in order to do so, you first had to recognize that you COULD.
With this new trend of labeling everything as an addiction, people are learning NOT to take responsibility. After all, if it’s an “addiction”, then you are physically COMPELLED to continue the behavior at the risk of suffering illness or death.
But no one has ever gotten sick or died because they were unable to download the latest ‘fisting’ video. They may have been pissed, but that’s behavioral. And if they then ended up slapping the wife and kicking the dog, then they belong in jail, not some kind of “rehab” program.
Anyway, it’s JMHO, but I don’t want anyone to think I’m making light of real physical addictions…
on 01 Jul 2010 at 6:18 pm # admin
Love it, you guys are awesome.
on 01 Jul 2010 at 8:23 pm # SETH
I don’t think that anyone can really from a good opinion on this topic since the fact we don’t understand the chemical make up of the persons brain that is the so called porn “addict”. as Chucky stated porn goes hand and hand with masturbation. Thus this is why when we view images of sex (”porn”) Our brain release amounts of dopamine neurochemical in the central nervous system that is apart of the reward-center. Dopamine is HIGHLY addictive natural neurochemical, this the same chemical that users of COCAINE and METHAMPHETAMINE get there addiction & Euphoric high from. If your not familiar on how the brain works then you can’t understand what happens when these changes happen in our body with normal activity’s; this is a reason that people with OCD have such a hard time breaking there habits ; there central nervous system is rewarding them for doing things several times or whatever there problem maybe. People with porn addictions and OCD along with any other addict have to RE-HARDWIRE their brain. Not having sympathy for someone that can’t help there disability’s they have is arrogant If someones brain chemistry is not working on normal levels this then can cause them to produce more dopamine when the images are viewed thus CAUSE a PSYCHICAL addiction; the body is then wanting and craving the neurochemical, dopamine more. consent viewing of porn or masturbation can re hardwire the brain to act un-normal and cause damage the dopamine receptors as were they will not work properly anymore without the viewing of the images. Theres so much we don’t understand about the human brain; I think that you should do more research on the chemistry of addictions & compulsions before forming an opinion.
-SETH
on 01 Jul 2010 at 8:52 pm # linda
Seth, Seth, Seth…A compulsion is NOT an addiction. And certainly you are right in that catering to a compulsion does affect the neurotransmitters in the brain. For instance, when I eat chocolate, I get a ‘brain surge’ of pleasant neurochemicals that make me feel good. But I am NOT addicted to chocolate. Going without it would piss me off, but not threaten my health and well-being. If I were to say, clock my husband over the head with a brick because he ATE my chocolate, it would not be due to my “addiction”, but because I was a jerk. Don’t get me wrong, I HAVE been tempted at times, and not just because he ate my chocolate, but because he leaves dirty socks under the bed, and steals the sheets, and doesn’t seem to understand why he must lift the toilet seat before he pees (unless he has REALLY good aim) But all this is behavioral, not biological.
ALL pleasant behaviors will effect the neurochemistry in the brain. This does not mean we are “addicted” to those behaviors, just that we don’t have the willpower to change them without some self-effort.
On the other hand, a TRUE physical addiction does NOT depend on willpower. If you are addicted to barbiturates, and you have the best will power in the world, and stop abruptly, YOU CAN DIE. THAT’S an addiction.
If I, for some reason, have to stop eating chocolate, I will NOT die. I MAY want to kill someone, but that’s behavioral.
Having a hard time breaking a habit does not mean you are an addict to the habit, at least, not in the true sense of the word.
on 01 Jul 2010 at 9:59 pm # SETH
Addcitions are not widely agreed on. Some doctors believe that gambling, porn, & others such things, are forms of OCD … or Impulse control disorder, … or some beleive its an addiction. If you research into the matter chronic-masturbators if they cant masturbate they will actually in some cases become sick along with other withdrawal symptooms, this is evident in documents that many psychologists have documented. Addictions do not have to be able KILL you to be an Addiction.
An Addiction as defined by the American association of psychology is Dependence on a chemical substance to the extent that a physiological and/or psychological need is established. This may be manifested by any combination of the following symptoms; tolerance, preoccupation with obtaining and using the substance, use of the substance despite anticipation of probable adverse consequences, repeated efforts to cut down or control substance use, and withdrawal symptoms when the substance is unavailable or not used.
Could this chemical substance not be a natural substance that is produced in the body such as dopamine or Adrenalin? That is produced because the person is completing a task that the central nervous system will reward to get their high. This is where there psychology flied becomes toren. There is so much we dont know about that human brain it is ridiculous. Also willpower - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WILLPOWER ,what you are talking about is Self-Regulation or Implusie Control as defined by the American association of psychology. These terms are used to refer to the many processes individuals use to manage drives and emotions. This function of the brain can be defective especially if the person as ANY mental disorders. Such as ADHD, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, addiction, eating disorders and impulse control disorders. This person did not CHOOSE to have abnormal self-regulation system but they do; once again not having sympathy or saying they should just being able to quit is arrogant, you are not fully understanding what we know about the human brain. just because you dont understand the reasoning behind someones actions does not mean they intentionally or would have done the action had they had a normal self-regulation system. As I said before I don’t think that anyone can really from a good opinion on this topic since the fact we don’t understand the chemical make up of the persons brain that is the so called “addict” or someone with a “compulsive disorder”. People in these cases have mental disorders and need help; not to be told that they can just quit or there wrong for doing it. They need need help. Thats all I’m saying.
on 02 Jul 2010 at 4:32 am # Lotta Roti
Something has not to be labeled “addiction” just because it is something people may need help for. After all, there are all sort of therapy forms developed for helping people to change their behavior when it is hard.
I think Linda is referring to a vulgar-psychological idea of what an addiction, a mental condition or genetic predisposition means. That it would mean lack of personal responsibility of anything. It traces back to the outdated concept of strict divide between body and mind.
on 02 Jul 2010 at 1:00 pm # linda
Thank you Lotta, sometimes I need a translator…:-)
I’m not unsympathetic to the problems some have with changing certain behaviors. And in a lot of cases, fighting a compulsion can be harder than dealing with an addiction. I mean, most substances clear the body after a time, but the compulsion to indulge is still there, even though there is no longer any physical need for it. You can treat an addiction fairly quickly, but it can take years to deal with the compulsion. And some have a harder time of it than others, could be a genetic predisposition, a psychological disorder, whatever. So, I do understand that, but I also feel that, barring some serious mental disorder, that at some point we have to “own” our behaviors. I see this trend towards finding excuses for noxious behaviors and it disturbs me.
A big problem I have with calling these things addictions is that there is an implication that there is something inherently WRONG with whatever it is that you’re doing, and that people are unable to control their use/abuse of it. The gambling is evil, the porn is evil, etc. I mean, if people can actually become ADDICTED to it, there MUST be something about it that should be regulated, or even banned. And there are people who would be more than happy to do that. We regulate and even outlaw certain drugs because people become addicted to them, it ruins lives, destroys families, etc. We regulate alcohol and tobacco, even ban it in some situations, because of the problems they can cause. If we accept that something like porn can be addictive, what’s to stop some well-meaning government “nanny” from deciding that we should be protected from it? Or some person with more sinister motives from banning it altogether? They’ve already done that with gambling in many places…
Most porn today is via the internet, which is largely unregulated. What would happen to the porn industry if internet porn were to be heavily regulated like gambling, drugs and alcohol, or even banned outright? All in the interest of protecting society, especially the children. (Because that’s the question these people always ask…”What about the CHILDREN!?”)
So, although I am sympathetic to those who may have problems with their behaviors, I hesitate to label these behaviors as addictions, because it’s a very slippery slope.
Now, I’ve got to go get a “fix” of my all-time favorite “Twinkie” picture. I think I’m addicted to it…:-)
on 02 Jul 2010 at 5:33 pm # Michael
I’m with Seth here, but with a twist. The problem for any addict to a physically addictive drug is not so much stopping as not restarting, relapsing as it’s called. It’s not a physical addiction to an opiate or oxy that causes it to be more than a single horrible experience. Most addicts go through withdrawals many times. Yet something brings them back to it despite the fact that personal experience should tell them that restarting will inevitably mean another withdrawal.
I don’t think labeling something as an addiction is a kind of get out of jail free card. That’s not to say some addicts might try to use it that way, but any 12 step or other recovery program will try to get an addict to take responsibility for their actions as part of their recovery.
However, they will try to get them to not wallow in guilt over those actions simply because feeling bad about themselves doesn’t help them stop. It only encourages them to get blotto to forget what horrible things they’ve done.
Can someone be addicted to porn? Well this is a blog by a porn star. Presumably someone out there has either self-diagnosed or been called that. Any of you guys got anything to say?
on 02 Jul 2010 at 8:38 pm # Lotta Roti
Well I have a slight problem with 12 step programs. I think they are cult-like and kinda an addiction of their own. Yet I suppose it is sometimes the lesser evil and necessary in order to simply survive.
There are addiction theorists who would say you can be addicted to anything that causes pleasure: certainly porn. And if it can be used as an argument in, say, a court case, someone certainly will.
One way to define addiction is that you continue the behavior even if it causes you no pleasure: not because you want to, but because you feel that you have to, even if it makes rationally sense. I don’t really know if someone can be that addicted to porn. To jerking off maybe.
on 03 Jul 2010 at 7:44 am # J
I think a porn-addiction is just a sex-addiction by proxy, if you could even call a sex addiction an “addiction” because anyone with a normal, healthy sex drive needs sex.
I guess it’s more akin to an eating disorder in that sense because you couldn’t get a sex-addict to completely abstain from sex any more than you could get a bulimic to completely abstain from food.
I guess some people can develop an unhealthy relationship with their “appetite” in either of those contexts. Apparently some sex-addicts have sex, when they’re not really horny, just because “it’s there” in the same way that some people eat when they’re not hungry.
on 03 Jul 2010 at 11:35 am # Michael
12 step programs can definitely be culty in many respects. I’ve been there and don’t go now so I know I think the upsides and downsides. However, unlike your typical cult there are no leaders perhaps because there’s very little money to flow to them. Also, there’s no uniformity of opinions like you get in a real cult. In many ways therefore it’s the best form of psychotherapy.
on 03 Jul 2010 at 11:59 am # J
I don’t suppose many real cults would be flexible about which “higher power” you submit to.
on 03 Jul 2010 at 2:29 pm # Lotta Roti
There is a reason why I said cult-like, not cult period. They most likely have a more benevolent/lucid motive, but they have disturbingly similar characteristics, and IMO there are similarities in the way they affect the attending persons.
on 05 Jul 2010 at 2:01 pm # linda
Andy Kay, this is a lot of fun…what’s your next blog post going to be about?…:-)
on 06 Jul 2010 at 12:17 pm # Noah
Wow, Andy you have definitely started a interesting topic.
I do know some psych from college. Addictions, something that consumes your life,beyond all other things….ie.. family, healthy relationships,whatever that means. “healthy relationships”.
Addiction to porn… Seth you said addiction to porn so you are saying to watch porn will cause me to masterbate a lot. hmmm ? never really have. It just is interesting to watch, sex… Gay sex. i don’t spend hours watching or even let it consume my life. Most of the responses were to what addictions are related to. ie drugs.. negative non-productive things in life…however you guys want to define that. What happened when I spent 20 hrs a week running, biking,swimming. Training for triathlons, sports was a huge part of my life, addiction. umm oh help me their, hmm ?
I have only kept one thing in my life as a wise way to live. “HOW DO I DEFINE MYSELF” Work, family, ?? wealth. definitely not.
I guess this topic will go on a long time. I’m would be interested an look to see how it goes.
Anyway great things to Andy for stimulating topics. !
Be well my friend.
on 06 Jul 2010 at 2:25 pm # linda
I just can’t use the word “addiction” for behaviors. Compulsion, obsession, perhaps, but not addiction as it would apply to say, a heroin addict. I wonder if people have kind of latched on to this term to describe their unhealthy obsessions with certain behaviors they would rather not change. Or to serve as an excuse for their not changing them. Just because making the change is not easy doesn’t mean you should now have a medical excuse for it. That’s just my personal feeling.
Everything that is judged to be addictive ends up getting regulated by government. We already have the feds, the states, the locals all up our asses like colon polyps. Do we really need the 12-steppers too? There’s not a lot of elbow room left up there you know…
You start throwing the word “addiction” around in connection with porn and it’s only a matter of time before some Congressman from Bumfuck, Utah proposes regulating the stuff. And I’m not just talking about checking the ID cards of models, but REAL hardass regulation, like you see with gambling. And websites can be blocked, Pakistan recently blocked Facebook from the entire country for a time. How would you like to check on the latest adventures of those wacky fratboys, for example, and find the site blocked because your local officials have deemed it harmful ADDICTIVE behavior, with the support of the medical community?
If you are the kinda guy who just can’t keep your hands off “Mr. Happy” than DEAL with it. Get a grip on it, but don’t go whining about being “addicted” to it. Don’t screw it up for the rest of us.
on 07 Jul 2010 at 1:05 pm # Lotta Roti
Agreed with Linda. Well, I’d be a bit more soft-spoken: I believe that someone can be unhealthily obsessed with pornography so that it harms his personal relationships. If that’s the case, seek help. It’s out there. People lose weight too, and quit smoking. I think porn “addiction” can be compared to unhealthy eating habits: food is not dangerous but the behavior is. Even so, with porn it is more of a social and psychological than physical problem.
on 07 Jul 2010 at 8:13 pm # J
If you have an addictive personality then you can get “addicted” (debatable whther that’s the correct word) to all kinds of stupid stuff like the internet or eBay or indeed porn. It doesn’t mean those things need regulating.
on 07 Aug 2010 at 3:45 am # Gregory Underwood
Your addiction to porn is indeed a struggle but don’t easily give up. There are help groups who are very much willing to help you recover from such addiction. You also have your family, ask for their help and you’ll have a much more clearer path towards recovery.